In this episode of Wine, Women, and Revolution, Heather interviews Margaret Kimberly about her book “Prejudential” Her book highlights the racist history of the American Presidency. There has not been a single president in US history that hasn’t displayed the ugly trait of racism. From owning slaves to refusing to pass anti-lynching bills, our history is dark and hurtful. Until we shine a light on the hidden parts of history, we will never begin to heal the wounds we have caused and move forward to a brighter future. This book is a must read for anyone who wants to understand the real history we aren’t taught in schools.

Margaret Kimberly 0:00
Scholars and historians cover for these guys. Because it’s it’s right out there that Lincoln never gave up his dream of sending Black people out of the country.

Heather Warburton 0:17
This is Wine, Women and Revolution with your host, Heather Warburton. Hi and welcome to Wine Women and Revolution. I’m your host Heather Warburton coming at you here on Create Your Future Productions. You can find us online at Follow us on all the social medias and get us wherever you get your podcasts from. I’m really excited tonight, I’ve got an amazing guest for you guys. You probably already know or if you follow Black Agenda Report, then you definitely know her or about a year or so ago, she released a book called Prejudential. Welcome to the show. Margaret Kimberly.

Margaret Kimberly 0:58
Oh, thank you so much, Heather. It’s a pleasure.

Heather Warburton 1:00
Yeah, it’s always an honor to have you here. And you’re also a member of the Green Party. Even though you’re from New York, the jersey greens have kind of adopted you as one of our own.

Margaret Kimberly 1:10
I love my jersey green people. I can’t wait. Well, for many reasons for the pandemic to be over. We can get together again, you’re a fun group. Also of course having the best politics ever, but very nice people.

Heather Warburton 1:23
Yeah, we are definitely one of the farther left Green Parties, I would say in the country, we’re definitely holding up the socialist banner, proudly. So your book was amazing. I actually got the audio book of it, which you narrated yourself, was that stressful having to narrate your own audio book?

Margaret Kimberly 1:42
It was fun. It was well, it was it was a great learning experience. You just sit in this little booth. And it’s it’s a funny thing, because they tell you this, you know, they have these amazing microphones, of course, and the thing I remember most from the email was they said, make sure you eat breakfast, because if your stomachs growling, the microphone will pick it up. That’s my enduring memory. And I, I said I you’re my best friend, you’re telling me to eat a big breakfast. Giving me permission. But it’s I mean, it’s all just stumbling and starting, you know, trying to read something. But it was it was, it was fun. Like anything else it took, like, I’m gonna say, two sessions. You know, each one, maybe a few hours long. Actually took less time than we scheduled. But it was, it was a lot of fun. And I’m glad it was my voice and not somebody else’s. It was fun to read my own words. And it was an affirmation. Yeah, I wrote a book. I read it. So yes. I’m glad you, you listen to it.

Heather Warburton 2:44
And you can put your your own inflection on things that maybe somebody else that was reading your book, didn’t know your tone of thought when you were writing it. But when you were reading it yourself, you’re like, yeah, I wanted to really stress this word or stress this point.

Margaret Kimberly 2:57
Well, someone pointed out to me, they said you got they said that I became more adamant as the book went on, maybe I don’t know if I was more relaxed or what but they said you were a little more fiery in the later chapters. So the later 45 chapters, I wasn’t aware of it at the time, I think was a combination of comfort, having done the recording for some hours already. And you know, just a feeling a greater feeling of confidence.

Heather Warburton 3:24
Well, and you’re like, yet another president that screwed over Black people, like you’re probably getting more and more pissed off, the more you’re going.

Margaret Kimberly 3:32
Well, you know, it’s it’s a funny thing. It’s someone asked me as interviewed a couple nights ago, and someone said to me, please tell me there’s nothing bad about Jimmy Carter, because this person was an admirer of Jimmy Carter. And I said, I’m sorry, I can’t help you. It’s like, I know now he’s building houses for you know, building houses for Habitat for Humanity. And he doesn’t get paid half a million dollars to give speeches and he criticized Israel and we’ll give credit where it’s due. But he was conservative president he used the racist tropes during this campaign. I said so sorry. I cannot. I cannot help you. But yeah, yeah. When it came to Black people, there are no heroes in that story.

Heather Warburton 4:12
No, definitely not. So let’s kind of dive into the book a little bit. It’s about really the stuff you’re not taught about the US presidents concerning what how racist were they? Did they own slaves? How did they…. were they good for Black people? It’s kind of the gist of this book. What inspired you to write it?

Margaret Kimberly 4:31
Well, it all began. I am a columnist at Black Agenda Report. And I wrote a column about Theodore Roosevelt in 2014 or 2015. And a friend and supporter of Black Agenda Report said to me, why don’t you write about all the Presidents was like, Okay, I can. You know, of course, I did not know what I was doing, writing a book. I wrote columns every week was not the same as writing a book. But but there’s a lesson there. Sometimes. It’s helped To say yes when you don’t actually know what you’re doing, and because without this person’s urging, I probably would not have done it. So it all all worked out that way. I wrote about Theodore Roosevelt. I’ve watched the PBS documentary about the Roosevelts and I felt like it was a no pun intended a whitewash of Theodore Roosevelt. Now I realize all of history is one gigantic whitewash of all of them.

Heather Warburton 5:28
Well, yeah, that was one thing, I noticed that there’s a lot of facts that you present, this is a dense, like, there’s no fluff in this book. It’s all meat. There’s no side dishes. This is just all facts and real truth. And it’s not mostly common knowledge at all. What kind of research did you have to do to uncover all this stuff?

Margaret Kimberly 5:47
Well, you know, some of it was a lot of online research. But a lot of time spent in libraries. Though, I already loved the New York Public Library System we have, we’re very lucky to have it. And so I spend a lot of time in the the main branch on Fifth Avenue near 42nd. Street, and at the Schomburg, Center for Research and Black Culture, also part of the public library system. I went to Washington to the Library of Congress, but it’s a funny thing. It’s the information I found is right there, you don’t have to look hard for it. It’s just but it’s clear, after doing this for rather a short time that scholars and historians cover for these guys, because it’s it’s right out there that Lincoln never gave up his dream of sending Black people out of the country. I mean, I was taught he said that once and then he changed his mind. He never said it again. No, he said it like a couple of weeks before he was assassinated. He never gave that up. I think that’s the thing that stuck with me. The degree and and I would also say omissions are lies. You know, not it’s not just saying something that’s factually untrue. But if you don’t, if you just decide to leave something out, because and I think, you know, most biographers, they write about people because they’re admirers because they respect them, and anything that shows them in a negative light, they just leave it out. But that is telling a lie, if you leave things out, that are important.

Heather Warburton 7:23
Yeah, and these are not minor things. These were major infractions by these people. How many presidents owned slaves?

Margaret Kimberly 7:31

  1. 10 of the first 12 and 12 in all. Of the first 12, only the Adams his father and son did not. Although they were not innocent, either, especially John Adams, he was terrified of the idea of Black people being freed. And he went on and on about how terrible it was, if there were to was to be a free Black population. And he defended the slave-ocracy. The southern slave powers, as they were also called, although there was slavery in the north too. It just ended sooner. And it’s not incidental that the first presidents were so many of them were slaveholders. It tells you how important slave holding was to the economy that that was the road to wealth to fame to prominence.

Heather Warburton 8:24
Right, and we can’t get you know, the North isn’t off the hook, even if they didn’t own slaves, because they were benefiting from that economy. Those cheap textiles from the southern states were awfully you know, attractive to people that were living in the northern states.

Margaret Kimberly 8:40
Well, well, you know, cotton may have been grown in the south. But where was it sold? Where were the you know, this was the financial capital from day one. So yes, this was the foundation of American of American wealth.

Heather Warburton 8:54
And you said in the book that people like to feel good about their government, and we almost kind of idolize the founding fathers in this country as superheroes, almost these larger than life, amazing men. And here you are telling the truth about them. Are you getting a lot of pushback from people for this?

Margaret Kimberly 9:14
Yeah, I get some, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s a funny thing there. There aren’t many people who one person guy on Twitter recently called me a grifter. He says, looks like you look for something bad about all of them. You want to prove they were all racist. And I was like, I didn’t have to prove it. It’s there. But he’s, that’s rare. Most people just want some sort of absolution for the guy they liked, or the ones they admired. It’s like oh, I was a Teddy Roosevelt fan. I didn’t want to know that he court martialed the Black soldiers accused falsely accused of murder and kicked them out of the army and waited till after election day to make sure Black people voted for Republicans in order to commit this wrong. It’s it’s just like sorry, this these are the facts, but people do want to feel good about the groups they identify with. One of those groups of identity is a national identity being an American, and people want to be proud and want to have positive feelings. And I just say you’ve got to have positive feelings about something else. That can’t be you know, you’d have to admire the people who fought against slavery, you have to admire the people of ascent. There are people I didn’t know existed a senator from Ohio named Foraker, who was who stood up against Roosevelt when he court martialed, those men so unfairly, people whose names you don’t know. And I say to people, if there’s somebody you want to admire, it could be if there’s a white man from 1850s, you want to admire it ought to be John Brown, we have to respect people and people we’re not told much about if we’re told anything about them at all.

Heather Warburton 10:51
Your book is definitely another one of those books that you read this real accurate history. And for me, at least I get kind of pissed off that I didn’t get to learn this the actual truth that, you know, I was told George Washington’s false teeth were made out of wood. And that’s what they tell a lot of American schoolchildren and do you want to give what the teeth were actually made of

Margaret Kimberly 11:14
His you know, his teeth were made, his dentures were made of, you know, ivory and metal, but he also got teeth from some of the people he owned, their teeth were extracted to put into his dentures. And I it’s so horrifying to me, I nobody wants to get a teeth tooth pulled. Now, we have anesthesia. And then you know, good, better medical care. I cannot imagine having a tooth pulled out of my head without medical science without any painkiller. But it was done for him. And he and his wife owned more than 200 people, mostly Martha belonged to her and her first husband’s estate. So all you know, speaking of things, you’re told, you’re told he married a wealthy widow, but nobody tells you how she got wealthy, but anybody wealthy in Virginia at that time was a slaveholder. That that’s how one did it and, and yeah, it is infuriating.

To realize, I mean, at various stages, actually, it continues, it never ends. I get angry about things I was not taught, I get angry about things that were lies. But we have been mis educated. There’s a good book called the MIS Education of the Negro. But there’s Miseducation of what is the book by James lowen. Lies My Teacher Taught Me is another very good book. But But yes, it’s, in order to tell this story of a good nation, you have to you have to cover up because if you talk about Andrew Jackson, I mean, look at their faces on the money Andrew Jackson. I mean, the man was a genicideer, he is the one who ethnically cleansed the southeast of the indigenous population in order for the plantation economy to take hold. So people say they admire him or Jacksonian democracy or whatever, he was horrible. He was a murderer, a mass murderer. And, and actually this, this idea of putting Harriet Tubman, her sharing the $20 bill with him is an insult to her. I don’t know why people think that’s a good thing for her face to be on money, the source of so much suffering. But yeah, it is it is, in fact, I mean, even today, I read the paper, and I’m more knowledgeable now. And I realize all the things that are kept from us. And you know, if you depend on the corporate media, you don’t know anything you’re supposed to know. So people think they’re being well informed. If they read the New York Times and watch CNN and listen to NPR, then they know what’s going on in the world. No, they don’t. They know the elite narrative. They know the propaganda narrative, but they do not know what they need to know about any number of subjects.

Heather Warburton 14:03
And we have to learn from the past if we want to craft a different future. And if our collective past is being robbed from us all, if we’re only getting someone’s spin on the past, then we’re never going to be able to craft a better future.

Margaret Kimberly 14:16
That’s true. That’s true, as difficult as it is for people to face that their identity is based on fraud or based on evil doing. You can’t have it you’re not gonna have anything different. I also say to people don’t you want a country you can really be proud of, rather than have some fake pride based on lies. But you can’t do that. If I mean, just the idea. I remember every time I remember that was Bill Clinton. He was supposed to give a speech about slavery. And it was like is he gonna apologize for slavery and people were so upset but the idea of like, really, but that’s where many people are mentally. They cannot let go of these narratives. And but that’s very unfortunate because then it makes it…. but we also have to say that the clinging to these narratives people also do that because they, they benefit from the country that we have. And they know in some kind of way, whether they admit it or not. If you really had a non racist society, then things would be different for them. And they wouldn’t be guaranteed a good job or being able to buy a house in the right neighborhood or any number of things. So I think there’s some cynical support for that narrative, too.

Heather Warburton 15:41
Yeah. Oh, you’re absolutely right on that, for sure. So wanting to dig back in a little bit more to some of the President’s. Were you actually shocked with anything you uncovered like somebody was so much worse than, you knew.

Margaret Kimberly 15:54
Lincoln. The fact that he never gave up his colonization schemes. That was something I was unaware of. And I’m unaware of that just because they’re out and out lies. I was not aware. his immediate predecessor, James Buchanan. He became president he was inaugurated within a couple of weeks of the Dred Scott decision being made and the Dred Scott decision in the Supreme Court ruled that this man who had been enslaved but taken to a free state that he was not, not only did they not free him, but they said Black people were not citizens, whether slave or free, and none had any rights, James Buchanan, colluded with the court on a decision, he acted improperly communicating with the supreme court justices, he said, The Great object of my administration will be if possible to destroy the dangerous slavery agitation, and thus the restore peace for our distracted country. And he said to someone in the letter with their concurrence, I will give you in confidence, the history of the case before us with the probable result. So he worked behind the scenes with the court with Justice Taney to make sure that not only did they not give this individual his freedom, but that the decision would be one that he hoped would end political difficulties they had over slavery at that time. So I did not I mean, I think how do you tell the story of the Dred Scott decision, and not teach that the President was part of the decision that he took part in this, but the story of Washington, the enslaved people’s teeth, that was a shocker, Woodrow? Well, I knew Woodrow Wilson was a racist. But he he actually was endorsed by the Black leadership of the time they were still angry with Theodore Roosevelt about the court martial of the Black troops. So at the end, at that time, the early 19 hundred’s the democrats were the party of the segregated south and Republicans were the Black People’s Party, still the party of Lincoln. And people were so angry with Roosevelt, they would not support him when he ran on this third party bull moose ticket in 1912. And Woodrow Wilson made some mild statement about I will, you know, have justice for the colored people are something that no one should have depended upon. But he ended up being horrible. He was an unrequited literally unreconstructed southerner, he segregated the federal workforce. He screened the movie Birth of a Nation at the White House, he was terrible. But the other thing, there’s this thread of Black people from the moment any Black people had the right to vote this search for the better party, the better person or even the party that’s less harmful and hoping that this President or that President will be better for Black people. And in vain we continue this hope up until the present moment. But James Polk was a active slave trader, while he was in the White House, all of the manipulations to steal, just have a war with Mexico and then to make Texas a state. All of these things are really, really shocking. Harry Truman, here’s one, Harry Truman belonged to the Klan as a young man. When it was revealed. He claimed he was forced into it, somebody threatened him to, you know, to make him join the Klan. The Klan was popular in the 20s. That’s all you need to know. But he remained a segregationist his whole life despite the fact that he desegregated the military, but he did that because he knew the 1948 race was going to be so close. But as an old man when the civil rights movement started and the sit ins began, he said, If anyone came into my store and tried to stop business, I’d throw him out the Negro should behave himself and show he’s a good citizen, and he wrote this in a telegram and then said this is not confidential. So you can tell people that I said it. Eisenhower was outwardly racist, although his mother may have been a Black woman. If you see photos of her She looks like a light skinned Black woman. I don’t know if she was or not. But he was opposed to the Brown v Board of Ed decision. And he said, Well, you know, white people, they just don’t want their white little white girl sitting next to an overgrown Negro. I mean, things like that. So there’s lots of shocking.

Heather Warburton 20:30
Yeah, there were, it was just one horrible story after another, I was shocked at how many people would not oppose lynching. Like everybody keeps asking the president, can you like say lynching is bad, maybe? And they’re like, No, no, I’m not gonna do that. Like it was president after President after President.

Margaret Kimberly 20:46
There was never an anti lynching bill. Never. And people talk about it now. And now lynchings are committed by the police. So you know, unless you’re going to crack down on the police. It’s it’s kind of a moot point. But you’re absolutely right. There were never any. It was quite open that Black people could be murdered by mobs. There’s film footage, there’s photos, it’s people bragged about it, news stories about it. And no, they because they knew they’d have to go up against the South. And, you know, it’s a funny thing. Now, when people talk about fascism, that was fascism. People act like it was something new or it was just Trump or no, Jim Crow was fascism. It was American fascism. And it’s something Hitler learned from. Hitler studied eradication, eradication of the native population, the reservation system, Jim Crow, so let’s talk about how fascist this country was, and sometimes still is.

Heather Warburton 21:48
Absolutely. And there was one no, Actually, there were two more things I wanted to get to and I thought they were both really important was one of them was the name Benjamin Parker. This was someone I had never heard of. And it seems it was kind of designed that we would never hear the story of Benjamin Parker. Can you talk a little about who he was?

Margaret Kimberly 22:09
Yeah, McKinley, Teddy Roosevelt’s successor he was assassinated in Buffalo while he was visiting Buffalo. And while he was at the Pan American exposition World’s Fair in Buffalo, September sixth 1901. And the assassin his name was Leon Czolgosz, and I’m not sure if I’m pronouncing it correctly. Anyway. So this man, Benjamin Parker was a Black man who was a waiter. And he was, you know, the President was there he was waiting to see the president. And he saw and the gunman took out his gun shot McKinley twice, and then Parker grabbed him and kept him from shooting him a third time. Black people were at then, as now, very proud whenever someone in the group made good, and he was a big hero in the Black community. And initially, he was given credit for and McKinley did not die right away. He died several weeks later, so people said he may have saved his life, even though he ultimately did pass away from his wounds. Booker T. Washington said a Black man saved the president from death, you know, and even the white press wrote about the Tawny Lion of the exposition. And one of the secret servicemen says the colored man was quicker than we he nearly killed the man. But he was never asked to testify at the trial. His actions were disappeared, and he died in a mental hospital and his unclaimed body was dissected by medical students. That’s that’s the story of Benjamin Parker.

Heather Warburton 23:39
And it even went farther in the book, he said that it was possible that one of the Secret Service agents or the men who should have been protecting the President was too busy looking like what is this black man doing here?

Margaret Kimberly 23:48
Thats true. He said. However, his very presence may have changed McKinley fate. According to one story, at least one secret service agent was busy looking at the Black man, instead of observing the crowd as he should have been doing.

Heather Warburton 24:02
It’s it’s crazy that he just totally was erased from history. Like this was a major role he played Yes. And he was just disappeared.

Margaret Kimberly 24:10
Yep. Yeah. Yeah, it’s a it’s very sad. But it’s, you know, it’s one of those things that encapsulates the story of Black people in the country.

Heather Warburton 24:20
And the final thing I wanted to talk about from your book was even the location of where we selected our nation’s capital today was based on racism, like, you know, we always learned a little bit about, oh, you know, Virginia and Washington or and Maryland gave a part of themselves to be the nation’s capitol. Like it was just this totally innocuous thing. But there were some dark roots and where that was selected to be too..

Margaret Kimberly 24:45
Yeah, the first Capitol was New York City. That’s where George Washington was inaugurated. Then it was moved further south to Philadelphia. That proved problematic to Washington because Philly, Pennsylvania had a law that any incident A person who was in the state for more than six months could sue for their freedom. And this was a problem for George Washington. So he got around it by rotating His servants who were all enslaved people and making sure that none of them stayed in the state long in the state of Pennsylvania, long enough to sue for their freedom. He just rotated them to Mount Vernon, his personal predicament showed how difficult it would be to defend slavery unless you had a capital that was physically within those states that depended on slavery. So I mean, you have to ask yourself, when they say they built the New City, why would you need to build a new city? They were already cities. You already you know, you had New York and Boston and Philadelphia? Why would you need a new city, but they needed a city that was and it is said that George Washington personally profited from this somehow Mount Vernon is right outside of Washington, DC. So they created a new Capitol on a swamp and wedged between Maryland and Virginia, to make sure that the Capitol was safely physically within the bounds of the slave-ocracy states. And and, you know, as you as you, as you point out, how do you not tell that doesn’t anybody ask, wait a minute, why are you building a new city when they were already cities, but that was their need, they needed to have slavery, some have the capital in a place where it would be protected by slaveholding interest?

Heather Warburton 26:34
Yeah. And there, they we are taught that when we were so young, we don’t even get the idea of question. Because you know, you’re taught when, you know, when you’re just a child, they teach you all this stuff, and it’s never revisited. Again, when you’re old enough to like actually question it, and be like, wait a minute, what’s going on here? So it’s just as part of this indoctrination, and that’s part of education?

Margaret Kimberly 26:58
Absolutely. I mean, indoctrination is the word. And and the fact you know, doing the research, I’m not the first one to raise these questions. I mean, there have been books about the most recent one was the Black History of the White House by Clarence Hussein. But this book called Nixon’s Piano, written in the 80s, there’s Racist Presidents, George sinkler, was the author. So there are people who’ve talked about this before, who’ve written about this before. So I’m not the first one to present this information. But it’s a it’s a kind of a conspiracy to tell a different story, because the truth is too ugly. So yes, its indoctrinination to tell, to teach the I was talking about the Declaration of Independence, but nobody in high school or college said, we’re going to read the whole thing. And that it said, King George was instigating the Indians, against the colonists. And one of the reasons they wanted there two reasons they wanted to break free from, from the British one, they were afraid that the British were going to outlaw slavery. That was the first thing. The second thing was the British forbade them to extend settlements past the Appalachian Mountains. And they wanted the whole continent they wanted the whole thing that was the plan all along. And that is why they wanted to be independent. So how can you teach the Declaration of Independence? And not actually read it?

Heather Warburton 28:32
It’s almost mind boggling how much and we just accept it. Or, you know, there are, as you said, nefarious people who are intentionally omitting details, but we’re just kind of accept the history that we’re taught. And that’s why books like yours, and books like Howard Zinn’s People’s History, are the really important books. And I guess maybe they’re starting to get slightly more incorporated into the education as you know, like in New Jersey, we have the Amistad curriculum. So they may actually be working in some of the voices that we never actually hear from.

Margaret Kimberly 29:02
But there’s even a lot of resistance to it. You know, before he left office, Trump, I didn’t know he tried to start a new curriculum, there was all this anger about the 1619 project, which is problematic for other reasons. But there are people making the point that I just made about the foundation of the country, and about the desire to make to protect slavery as an example. And people there was this Firestorm, it’s like, how can you say that they weren’t motivated by the Enlightenment, they were, you know, there was the Stamp Act. It was, it was a tea in Boston Harbor. It was a, you know, all of these things. That played a role. But that that wasn’t it that wasn’t it at all. And there was this firestorm of protest. There was an effort to change the curriculum of the Advanced Placement Test for high school students for American history. And again, there was this outcry about, you know, wokeness and political correctness and it’s just telling students what to happen. It’s just being truthful. So a lot of people are still invested in, in the cover up, cover ups, plural.

I think it wasn’t that long ago that I saw that they were emitting the Trail of Tears from history books, that they just said that the Indigenous people moved to make room for the colonists.

Oh well, isn’t that isn’t that special? They just moved out? Yeah, I was not taught about that. When I think about the things I was, and I was always interested in history, I was a history major. But I wasn’t taught about the Trail of Tears, I wasn’t taught any of the things that we’ve talked about. You had to be a serious student of history, and you have to be looking for it when you do the research, in order to know about it. So it’s it’s very sad that we have a country that so many feelings and opinions about it are just based on fantasy and not on, not on any truth or even an effort to find, as I said before, to find those people who are admirable the people who did the right thing, the people who the radical abolitionists who said slavery had to end and that the war should be over slavery, to even ignore them in favor of continuing to tell the lie. which covers up so much.

Heather Warburton 31:41
Thank you for writing this book, because I learned a ton from it. If people want to check out this book, where can they find that

Margaret Kimberly 31:47
You can get Prejudential Black American and the Presidents on Amazon, you can get it from Barnes and Noble. You can get it from I really want to support local independent bookstores that are struggling. So if you you can order it directly from your bookstore, you can go to And they can help you do that. It’s on Audible as we said before, and yeah, and Steer Forth press published the book so Steer Forth you can order the book from there.

Heather Warburton 32:20
Are you working on anything else right now that you can tease people with?

Margaret Kimberly 32:23
Aha, I want to write another book. I from the beginning, I said it was my first book, which meant I wanted to do it again. So I’m not sure what I want to write about, I think I want to write about propaganda, which is sort of an extension of whats already written. But that’s gonna have to wait until the fall I’ve had, you know, offers to be published. But my personal situation I’ll be freer to, to write later this year, but I’m looking forward to writing again.

Heather Warburton 32:53
And I’m definitely looking forward to reading it. Thank you so much for talking to me. It’s been awesome talking to you today.

Margaret Kimberly 32:58
Thank you.

Heather Warburton 32:58
Thank you so much to my listeners, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it. When you listen to our show. When you share the stories around when you like things, post them on your social medias. With everything you can do to help get the word out. We really appreciate you because right now it’s kind of just me sitting in my spare bedroom. recording me isn’t you know, it’s kind of just a one woman show at the moment. So anything you can do to help I really appreciate it. If you know you’re getting your stimulus money in and you have a little extra money, I’d really appreciate if you could go to our donate page and you know, throw a couple of dollars my way just to help cover hosting costs and all that stuff for the for making these shows. And I appreciate you guys so much. The future is yours to create, go out there and create it

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